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Yes, Joanna, most interesting. But what happened in Washington DC won't happen in Britain. To begin with, the Church of England ditched the Book of Common prayer fifty years ago and it is now hardly known in worship. Evensong was abandoned in the majority of Anglican parishes by the popularity of 'The Forsyte Saga' broadcast on Sunday evenings at the same time forty years ago. People lost the habit of attending and the rite is scarcely found beyond cathedrals, and even there it is poorly attended.
American Episcopalianism as as different from Anglicanism as found in this country as chalk from cheese, as Americans find to their disappointment when they come here. The main problem with establishing an Ordinariate in Britain is that the majority of Anglo-Catholic churches use the Novus Ordo and have nothing distinctively Anglican about them apart from class, and even that is diminished. One of their problems is scratching about to find anything in their background which could be said to be distinctively Anglicsn beyond idiosyncrasy.
It might be coming, but I feel that it will not be a wholesale defection, rather a trickle - there will be to many things in the way.
The legal obstacles to whole churches crossing the Tiber are enormous and perhaps insurmountable (Evidence traditional anglicans in the USA) leaving the Episcopal Church).
Individuals going, will go with the blessings of those they are leaving, but they will be starting afresh - without any resources apart from themselves and their prayers. Perhaps that is what will be needed?
"And so, I ask Father Bergman, how does he feel about a liturgy using the words of Cranmer, one of the Reformation's pivotal figures, in the Catholic Church? "A despicable fellow," he replies."
If you died today, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven ?
The Bible says in I John 5:13, that we can KNOW we are saved eternally and going to Heaven.
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." I John 5:13
1. First, you must realize that you are a sinner.
The Bible says in Romans 3:23, that everyone is a sinner.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
2. You must realize what yours sins earn you.
The Bible tells us the penalty for our sin in the first part of Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death;" Romans 6:23a
Because we sin, we earn wages just like when we earn wages for working. Our wages for our sins is death. Because we sin, we deserve to die.
But that's not all, because we sin, we deserve to die a second death as well ...
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14
Because of our sins, we also deserve to die the second death: to be cast into the Lake of Fire ( Hell ).
3. Jesus paid the price.
God wants us to go to Heaven, so He sent His only begotten Son to die for us on the cross, so we can go to Heaven !
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
4. What must I do to be saved ?
God only asks one thing of us to be saved.
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13
If you believe that Jesus died for you and rose again so that you can be saved, and you simply ask Jesus to save you, He will :)
We Catholics don't teach that you have an assurance of salvation. The problem is that it provides a false reassurance. Most people have no explict experience of God, they have to rely on others' experiences. This can give us good grounds to believe that God exists, but not the kind of certainty that we would all like.
Some people do have an assurnace of salvation. For instance St Stephen saw heaven open, as he defied the Sanhedrin and matryrdom became inevitable. However it was only for a few minutes, and he was the very first man to die for Jesus' sake. The average person, even the average martyr, can't expect that sort of privilege.
However teachers have sometimes cultivated an excessive fear of Hell. This is frowned upon, and bishops will clamp down on it if they find that someone is doing this in their diocese. "In your mercy keep us free from sin, and protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ" is the correct Catholic attitude.
I read your blog and these comments a few days ago, but needed some time to ponder a response to the issue of Anglicans coming into communion with the See of St. Peter. Two things come to mind, Christ's high priestly prayer in the 17th chapter of St. John's Gospel and a beautiful poem by John Henry Newman, "Lead Kindly Light". First, in verse 11 Christ prays for unity for his disciples who are called apostles, bishops and priests. Secondly, He prays in verses 20 and 21 for unity among those who believe in Him because of their preaching. Christ has never intended for His church to spilt into the multiple denominations that exist today. So, as the "Morning Offering prayer words echo the call for ... " the reunion of all Christians", it it encouraging to see the dialogue between the Roman Church and the Anglican Church bearing fruit. I expect a massive defection from the Anglican Church anymore than I expect all people to believe Christ's gospel; although how glorious that would be for us all.
Last, as those approaching full communion with Rome, the words of Cardinal Newman seem appropriate. "Lead, Kindly Light. amid the encircling gloom, Lead me thou on! The night is dark, and I am far from home, Lead thou me on! Keep thou my feet; I do not ask to see the distant scene; one step is enough for me..." May all men and women of good will come together in Christ's church in these dark days.
7 comments:
Yes, Joanna, most interesting. But what happened in Washington DC won't happen in Britain. To begin with, the Church of England ditched the Book of Common prayer fifty years ago and it is now hardly known in worship. Evensong was abandoned in the majority of Anglican parishes by the popularity of 'The Forsyte Saga' broadcast on Sunday evenings at the same time forty years ago. People lost the habit of attending and the rite is scarcely found beyond cathedrals, and even there it is poorly attended.
American Episcopalianism as as different from Anglicanism as found in this country as chalk from cheese, as Americans find to their disappointment when they come here. The main problem with establishing an Ordinariate in Britain is that the majority of Anglo-Catholic churches use the Novus Ordo and have nothing distinctively Anglican about them apart from class, and even that is diminished. One of their problems is scratching about to find anything in their background which could be said to be distinctively Anglicsn beyond idiosyncrasy.
It might be coming, but I feel that it will not be a wholesale defection, rather a trickle - there will be to many things in the way.
The legal obstacles to whole churches crossing the Tiber are enormous and perhaps insurmountable (Evidence traditional anglicans in the USA) leaving the Episcopal Church).
Individuals going, will go with the blessings of those they are leaving, but they will be starting afresh - without any resources apart from themselves and their prayers. Perhaps that is what will be needed?
They might turn into traditionalist parishes, only using Tudor English instead of Latin.
"And so, I ask Father Bergman, how does he feel about a liturgy using the words of Cranmer, one of the Reformation's pivotal figures, in the Catholic Church? "A despicable fellow," he replies."
What a very great pity.
If you died today, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven ?
The Bible says in I John 5:13, that we can KNOW we are saved eternally and going to Heaven.
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." I John 5:13
1. First, you must realize that you are a sinner.
The Bible says in Romans 3:23, that everyone is a sinner.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
2. You must realize what yours sins earn you.
The Bible tells us the penalty for our sin in the first part of Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death;" Romans 6:23a
Because we sin, we earn wages just like when we earn wages for working. Our wages for our sins is death. Because we sin, we deserve to die.
But that's not all, because we sin, we deserve to die a second death as well ...
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14
Because of our sins, we also deserve to die the second death: to be cast into the Lake of Fire ( Hell ).
3. Jesus paid the price.
God wants us to go to Heaven, so He sent His only begotten Son to die for us on the cross, so we can go to Heaven !
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
4. What must I do to be saved ?
God only asks one thing of us to be saved.
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:13
If you believe that Jesus died for you and rose again so that you can be saved, and you simply ask Jesus to save you, He will :)
I just wanted to make sure you knew 100% sure :D
God bless you and your family !
Hi Ashley,
We Catholics don't teach that you have an assurance of salvation. The problem is that it provides a false reassurance. Most people have no explict experience of God, they have to rely on others' experiences. This can give us good grounds to believe that God exists, but not the kind of certainty that we would all like.
Some people do have an assurnace of salvation. For instance St Stephen saw heaven open, as he defied the Sanhedrin and matryrdom became inevitable. However it was only for a few minutes, and he was the very first man to die for Jesus' sake. The average person, even the average martyr, can't expect that sort of privilege.
However teachers have sometimes cultivated an excessive fear of Hell. This is frowned upon, and bishops will clamp down on it if they find that someone is doing this in their diocese.
"In your mercy keep us free from sin, and protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ" is the correct Catholic attitude.
I read your blog and these comments a few days ago, but needed some time to ponder a response to the issue of Anglicans coming into communion with the See of St. Peter. Two things come to mind, Christ's high priestly prayer in the 17th chapter of St. John's Gospel and a beautiful poem by John Henry Newman, "Lead Kindly Light".
First, in verse 11 Christ prays for unity for his disciples who are called apostles, bishops and priests. Secondly, He prays in verses 20 and 21 for unity among those who believe in Him because of their preaching. Christ has never intended for His church to spilt into the multiple denominations that exist today. So, as the "Morning Offering prayer words echo the call for ... " the reunion of all Christians", it it encouraging to see the dialogue between the Roman Church and the Anglican Church bearing fruit. I expect a massive defection from the Anglican Church anymore than I expect all people to believe Christ's gospel; although how glorious that would be for us all.
Last, as those approaching full communion with Rome, the words of Cardinal Newman seem appropriate. "Lead, Kindly Light. amid the encircling gloom, Lead me thou on! The night is dark, and I am far from home, Lead thou me on! Keep thou my feet; I do not ask to see the distant scene; one step is enough for me..." May all men and women of good will come together in Christ's church in these dark days.
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