Sunday, July 06, 2008

The Anglican plan... make some of their priestesses in England into bishops will mean more splits within the Anglican Communion.

Obviously it will marginalise the poor C of E more and more into the shadows of things. And it throws, once again, the claims of Rome into sharp relief.

Whatever happens, and at whatever pace, we will certainly see further development in the gradual re-alignment that started with John Henry Newman's decision to join Rome in the 19th century, and has brought so many of the C of E's most energetic minds and hearts to follow him since...

Now is the time for Rome to excercise that combination of large-mindedness, wisdom, and patience that is most needed. Of course, in the worldwide scheme of things, what is happening in Britain looks small - compared, for example, to the huge numbers pouring into the Church in China, the teeming numbers in Africa. And RCs here, probably especially in the blogosphere, will not be slow to offer pointless warnings to would-be converts about things the latter know only too well already (ugly music, dreary liturgies, confusion, bureaucracy, poor catechesis in our schools and sometimes quite hideous modern churches). But God doesn't neccessarily take note of such things - his concern for the Church, his Bride, is of a different sort and his longing "ut unum sint" will be worked out in his way...and Newman's beatification, some time over the next year or so, will be relevant too....


Antonio said...

"And RCs here, probably especially in the blogosphere, will not be slow to offer pointless warnings to would-be converts about things the latter know only too well already (ugly music, dreary liturgies, confusion, bureaucracy, poor catechesis in our schools and sometimes quite hideous modern churches)".

You are completely right, but just as Fr. Christopher Phillips of "Atonement Online Blog" wrote,
"sometimes the best journeys start with phrases like, “Let’s get the heck out of here!”".

Liz said...

I have endured a lot of ugly music (and some reasonably good music as well), some dreary liturgies and Hallmark greeting card homilies (as well as some rather good ones as well) in the eleven years since I came into the Church. Every now and then I end up back in a Protestant pew (usually for a funeral). But you know what? Even when the music is better, the speaker somewhat more inspiring, there's still something missing. There's this empty sense that I get, those pews are no longer home. Home is where I can walk in at any time of day and know that the Real Presence of the Lord is in the tabernacle. Yup, the bureaucracy is sometimes discouraging, the catechesis of children is often appalling, and yet it is still the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

But I guess I can be upbeat, we've a relatively new bishop in our diocese and change is trickling down. We've got two new priests (one from Nigeria) who are not married to the progressive movement. Our new pastor today exhorted everyone to read the Bible cover to cover and read the Catechism as well. And finally we have a pastor who doesn't alter the creed by leaving out the "men" in "for us men and our salvation." And he even bows at the proper place in the creed as well. He also does all the gestures indicated in the GRIM instead of only the ones he feels like. So you see sometimes change can be seen from top (our wonderful pope) to bottom (our new priests). For those of you who are still struggling with bishops and priests who are less than you'd like, may I recommend continued prayer for them and for the Church as a whole.

Anonymous said...

Of course there is much for Roman Catholics to be as uncomfortable about in their own organization isn't there Mrs Bogle?

The rape of Constantinople?

The Inquisition?

The institutionalized rape of children, which was known about by the very highest reaches of your hierarchy, with rapist Preists being moved around the world at the say so of the Vatican authorities?

The activities of the Priesthood in Croatia, Ulster and Romania during the Second World War? Or the complete backing given to fascists such as Generals Pinochet and Stroessner in their South American dictatorships?

Or, perhaps, the activities carried out by liberation theology supporting Priests with atheistic communists in places like Nicaragua? Bolsheviks like Bp. Oscar Remero, who eventually brought his own death upon himself by his repeated espousal of communism?

So, C of E women Priests, Romanist Nazi Priests, Papist Commisar Priests; no lectures please Mrs Bogle. It takes very little time Googling Catholic Pederast Nazi Fascist Communist to drag up all kinds of questionable activities.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matt 7:3-5 (KJV)

Anonymous said...

It's rather curious.

The Anglicans allowed women clergy, and that set up a train of logic that led inexorably to homosexual clergy. Somehow the Anglican women didn't feel insulted by this.

Anonymous said...

I share those views even if I would not have raced ahead of you to think them out so clearly.

Margo said...

There is church time and then there is real time. The church looks at its history in centuries, not years. How long did it take for the Papacy and the See of Constantinope to actually acknowledge each other after the separation in 1054? now there are very few areas in which the two Churches disagree. The Primacy of the Pope has been acknowledged, although not any authority. Unity with Orthodoxy may be forthcoming in the not too distant future. ORTHODOXY (with a small o) sells.