Monday, October 14, 2013

Red faces among the Grunerites...

...and if you don't know who they are, be grateful, as they are a tiresome bunch who are doing harm.

Their leader, Rev Nicholas Gruner, took them to Rome this past weekend, with banners and placards, thousands of brochures, and large lorries with big slogans on the side - all ordering the Pope to "consecrate Russia".

Of course the Holy Father was not going to do that, because it has already been done, by Blessed John Paul in 1984.

But Gruner and his followers have built up a whole organisation on the basis that there is a dark sinister plot, in which both John Paul and Benedict were deeply implicated,the Real Secrets of Fatima Haven't Been Told,  the past two Popes have been liars and deceivers, and Gruner is to be followed when he orders the new Pope to do things. Oh, and his Fatimist team put it about that  Gruner was already in touch with the Pope, and great things were to be expected, and it's All Going To Happen Soon...


On Sunday, Pope Francis, in a prayerful ceremony shared by vast crowds in St Peter's square, entrusted the world to Mary's immaculate heart, and her maternal care. It was a peaceful and beautiful thing to do.

And no, of course it didn't involve Russia, Gruner's nonsense, or anything else.

Gruner and his team - who have been collecting large sums of money from gullible people for years on the grounds that they are some sort of Fatima mission - have been made to look more than usually stupid and wrong.

Now - and this is important: Catholics need to know the truth about things. Cardinal Raymond Leo Buke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, wrote to me on September 24th:
"You are correct that there is much confusion about the message of Our Lady of Fatima, caused especially by Father Nicholas Gruner, a priest who is not in good standing in the Church, and that this confusion is harmful to many good people who are being led astray about the important message of Our Lady of Fatima.".

Cardinal Burke thanked me for the feature about Fatima in FAITH magazine:  "May God reward you for working to make known the truth about the message of Fatima!"

I  have the letter before me as I write...I am quoting only the relevant parts of it. I will keep and cherish this letter from a great Cardinal holding high office, who incidentally writes in a most beautiful, humble and pleasant way. Thank God for  his sanity. Thank God for Pope Francis.Thank God for the Church.


Anonymous said...

is it really wise to give this priest any further publicity ?
Loyal Catholics do not want to hear about him anyway.
what we all need to do is to spend as much time as we can in personal prayer each day.for a lay person, this could be as much as 2 hours a day at least.

Joanna Bogle said...

Gruner has lots of publicity so this blog cannot really add to it. Alas, loyal Catholics are listening to him, and being led astray. And he has a large network of followers, plus many others who use his material without knowing its source, and yet more who are influenced by it, and genuinely think that "there's a plot, you know..."

Pope Benedict has urged us that the message of Fatima is not over: it's a spiritual call, a rally to prayer and penance. It's not about a specific event in the sense that the "Fatimists" - and they are others as well as Gruner - want to believe. The message of Fatima is simply part of the unchanging message of the Church, the call to prayer, repentance and love and service of God. Pope Benedict sought to emphasise this on his own visit to Fatima - and Gruner and his associates immediately claimed, and still do, that in emphasising the now-and-always message of Fatima the Pope was somehow saying that he was crushed and barred from Telling The Whole Tuth and wanted to consecrate Russia but couldn't...and that he was ready to help reveal all sorts of secrets if only he could break out from the conspiracy... and a whole lot more besides. None of which the Pope had said, or implied, or even hinted at.

One cannot negotiate with people who want to believe in conspiracy theories, but one can warn against them. That is why I posted Cardinal Burke's warning, and I do urge readers to take it to heart.

Dave Awbrey said...

Dear Joanna, thank you for your faithful orthodox stand for the Catholic faith. I enjoy reading your blog and appreciate your views very much. As an aside, what do you think of the Ronald Knox translation of the Bible? Do you read it, or if not, what version do you use? Thank you.

Malcolm said...

His initial view was that the Vatican had made a secret agreement with the Communist party of the Soviet Union, and was suppressing the truth of Fatima. That was plausible in the late 1970s / early 1980s. But now it seems to be highly unlikely, because one of the main parties to the conspiracy has ceased to exist. However, as is the way with these things, instead of saying "I must have been wrong, there wasn't a conspiracy after all", he's made it more intricate and more dastardly.

The point that Russia hasn't quite converted yet is legitimate, of course. No-one in the hierarchy is saying we should no longer pray for Russia.

Terry said...

You should see them on the Protect The Pope blog. They are everywhere there, on every entry now demanding consecration to Russia etc etc.
Most tiresome bunch.

Suzanne Olipane said...

Auntie Joanna,
I love Cardinal Burke! What a blessing to get a letter from him commending you on your work about the truth concerning Fatima. How wonderful! Thank you for your voice and the work that you do on be hath of the Church.
Suzanne Olipane

Anonymous said...

Whatever you feelings about this man he is still and priest and therefore you should refer to him as Father Gruner and not just Gruner.

Anonymous said...

Dear Joanna, thank you for your information. My experience in the Arch -diocese of St Andrew and Edinburgh over my last 50 years is a sad one.
Every Catholic Church is locked, except when Mass is offered. Children's catachesis is so very poor, children leave Mass to return after the bidding prayers and this is orchestrated by the Gillis Centre, the administrative centre of the arch diocese. Lay people distribute Holy Communion at all Masses. Our Lady is hardly honoured our spoken about and the message of Our Lady of Fatima? I have never heard a sermon on that subject! Many parishes state in their newsletters that they are preparing for a lack of priests, when what we need is leadership and organisational skills - arranging the welcoming of missionary priests from Poland and Africa who will open all the parish churches again, lead the people to grow in their love of God and teach the faith and in particular - veneration, awe and the correct disposition when in the presence of Almighty God in the tabernacle. We do not have that in this arch diocese in any sense what so ever. The church is in a very serious crisis here and we need Our Lady's intercession so that catechesis for children is addressed without delay and that a major programme of teaching for the adult faithful in every parish is organised and lead by the bishop - and of course to undertake this most important and vital work in our diocese we need young missionary priests.
Reading this you may think I have gone off on a tangent, however this is actually the heart of the matter.
God bless you, G. Taylor

Joanna Bogle said...

Dear G. Taylor

Your comments of course explain exactly why it is important to pray and work with and for the Church and not to be led astray by the likes of the Grunerites. You will never be able to help with all the good projects you suggest unless you are able to join in prayer and renewal within the Church. It is tragic when people are led into some group that instead takes people away from the truth and into a weird world of fantasy.

If you lack information on Fatima, and do not get it in a sermon, you can obtain it from the World Apostolate of Fatima
- and you can help by distributing the material among your friends and contacts. There is always something, however seemingly small it is, that you can do for the Church: a Rosary group among friends, some house-to-house carol singing this Christmas (which is also a form of evangelisation!), prayer for priests, distribution of information about good activities for young people such as the Faith Movement and Youth 2000. Remember that the task of spreading the joy of the Gospel belongs to all who have been confirmed: while it is right to pray for more people with leadership and organisational skills, all of us can make some modest contribution. So we shouldn't despair, but "serve God and be cheerful": he can make use of us in our littleness in all sorts of good and unexpected ways.

Have you thought about taking a Maryvale course and helping with catechesis in your parish or some neighbouring parish? This would be the most specific and useful way of helping to address the needs of the children - and you would enjoy it, too.

warmest good wishes


Anonymous said...

In reply to the poster who says that every church in the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh is closed outwith Mass times, The cathedral, Sacred Heart of Jesus, St Albert's, St. Patrick's and Our Lady of Loreto are all open during the day.

Joanna Bogle said...

A brief note to the chap who wrote in with a looooong comment telling me to stop writing about Catholic things and get on with my knitting, and who seems to claim that the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura has no authority to say whether or not a priest is in good standing with the Church...and so on...and so on...

If you write a much MUCH shorter version - you can leave in all the bits in which you are rude about me, if you like, but shorten all the other bits - I might be able to publish your Comment. No promises, but concentrate on brevity and let's see if it works...

Auntie Joanna

maryja said...

I'll give a very short comment. If Russia has been converted, what happened to Our Lady's promised period of peace? Number Two, what did Fr Gruner actually do to be a priest " not in good standing"?

Joanna Bogle said...

Dear "Maryja"...this is the standard comment made by the Gruner website. You need to understand that a prophesy isn't like a sort of wager! Gruner's suspension was essentially a matter of his failure in obedience. Info here:

In the end, denouncing Popes as liars and promoting a private initiative concerning a vision over and against the authorities of the Church is never going to be the right way forward, however exciting it may feel.

maryja said...

I do understand that a prophecy is not a wager. The Queen of Prophets promised a period of peace. There isn't one. Ergo, her conditions have not been fulfilled.

I am unclear about exactly which church law Fr Gruner disobeyed. Can you clarify?

Joanna Bogle said...

Dear "Maryja"

No. You haven't understood the nature of prophesy. We can all rejoice at the swift and astonishing conversion that is happening in Russia, with new churches opening, old ones restored, great public processions etc. But the words at Fatima were about prayer and penance - it's not about standing alongside a sort of racetrack of history and shouting "Get on with it!". Prophecies are in the providence of God and the care of the Church. God is Lord of time and of history. It is not your job - or anyone else's - to start telling him to hurry up or to announce that your understanding of things is the only one that you will accept. Prophesy is not a wager.

Concerning poor Gruner - a priest's formal obedience to his Bishop is central to the Church, enshrined in Canon Law (worth studying), and central to his ministry. When Gruner disobeyed his bishop by refusing to move to a new assignment,the Bishop correctly urged him to obedience but he refused and the matter eventually went to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, where the Bishop's authority was upheld. It is worth reading up some of the details, which is why I directed you to do so. But it does have to be said that poor Gruner and his associates have long suggested that the Church authorities, and especially Pope St John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI were not to be trusted and so naturally they believe that the CDF's ruling is irrelevant. You will find that this is central to their whole stance, and is the message of their websites, publications, and rallies.

Meanwhile, the message of Fatima is not about prophesy or speculations on world events, but about prayer and penance. Ergo, that is what we should all be doing.Not - repeat not - distracting one another by announcing what we think should be happening in Russia or in the world generally, or trying to place bets on how quickly God will do what we think he ought to do.

Prayer and penance.

best wishes


G.C. said...

So now Cardinal Burke is calling for the Consecration of Russia! Any comment Auntie Joanna?

Joanna Bogle said...

Yes: the Cardinal specifically said that the consecration had already been done. No reason why it can't be done again. It could, as I have suggested in my latest blog post on the subject - as you would know if you read my Blog regularly! - become an annual consecration. I also made the suggestion, in the latest FAITH magazine, that there will come a time when Russians will go on pilgrimage to Fatima to renew the consecration there.

Come and join in! The important thing is not to be trapped in the conspiracy network. The message of Fatima is prayer and penance. Ditch the conspiracy-worries and join in with us.